I can’t think of any negatives it has over the XDS. After years of precision development and engineering combined with intensive collaboration with top engineers, shooters and self-defense experts, Springfield Armory® is proud to introduce the Hellcat® — the world’s highest capacity micro compact 9mm. Great comment, makes sense to me. Compare the dimensions and specs of Springfield XD-S MOD.2 9mm and Springfield Hellcat Micro Compact And I'd do that soon as I don't think used XDS will hold their value now that the Hellcat is available. For this, Springfield Armory asks $631 MSRP for the base model compact in 9mm. At the very least you might need to get a new holster too. There is also revised texturing on the slide and frame compared to the XD and Mod 2. Extended mags bring capacity to 19+1, 16+1 and 13+1, respectively. Dimensionally remarkably close to the same size, grip a tad fatter on the Taurus. Is there anything I’m truly missing that is a game changer with the Hellcat, for those of you that own/have tried both? It's got a small barrel so of course it's not something you're going to want to put 100's of rounds through. Good trigger. If you were to ask me which I would get between these two, I'd lean toward the XDS...but not for the reasons you'd think. Unfortunately, though, you will have to pull the trigger to take it down. Among the more notable is what Springfield calls its Match Enhanced Trigger Assembly (META). Weight is 28 ounces with an unloaded compact length magazine. Other improvements include a revised take-down mechanism, which doesn't require pulling the trigger (which releases the sear and uncocks the firing pin on guns that do), which some people appreciate as a gun safety feature. The XDS Mod2 ditches the knurled grip textures in favor of the XD Mod 2's stipling pattern. For competition, tactical, service, and concealed carry, nothing is as comfortable to shoot as a Springfield Armory 40 S&W, with reliability and … When the situation calls for more than a 9mm can deliver, the Springfield 40 cal for sale gives you what you need, every time you need it. Due to increased order volume, please allow additional time for shipping. You'll probably get a feel for which one you like better, and which shoots better for you. You'd be well-served with either one of these guns in your concealed carry holster, no doubt about it...but there are some differences that might add up to one being better for you than the other. It's not exactly the difference between chalk and cheese, but it's enough to tilt the table to one or the other depending on what you, the individual person doing some gun shopping, are looking for. Good thing about guns is they hold their value and relevance pretty well. Hellcat! Springfield Hellcat vs P365. The Springfield XDS has undergone some changes over its life cycle so far, and is now offered as the XDS Mod2, with the original XDS having been discontinued. . Swappable backstrap panels are included, and the slide has been beveled, shaving off about 1.5 oz. The Hellcat made a nice, but larger group — still not one to be ashamed of. With the flush-fit magazine, the XDM Compact is not impractical to carry. Then came along the Springfield Armory Hellcat delivering 11-round capacity in a flush magazine. This impressive feat is a combination of managing gun and magazine size. They also offer an 11+1 with pinky extension and a 13+1 extended mag for those looking for more rounds. He resides in the great Inland Northwest, with his wife and child. With the exception of the hammer-fired XDE — where a Model 1911 meets a subcompact XD — the Hellcat’s lack of a grip safety is a significant departure for Springfield Armory who has been producing striker-fired XD pistols with the feature since 2001. The Springfield XD-S feels very high-quality, in particular, because of the durability of the materials the manufacturer used. It chambers 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP. I don’t own it currently because I have a long list of other guns I want to get before the hellcat. On the one hand, I gravitate more toward double-stack guns and XDM compact pistols can be used with a full-size magazine if desired. Born in southeastern Washington State, Sam Hoober graduated in 2011 from Eastern Washington University. It’s slim, the sights are good, dummy proof ergonomics as to were you should grip the gun and lite weight. While at first glance, they are both small, striker-fired, black guns like many others, they are both very different guns. The difference is about a half-inch in length and about a quarter inch in width and height, and about 5 ounces in weight. A few more shots. Comes with decent sights standard. However, MSRP has received a $25 bump, as the base model 9mm pistol is now up to $524 from $499. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Both are good shooters. If you have big hands its kinda hard getting a good 3 finger grip on the hellcat for that reason I have Tallon grips (rubberized) on mine as well as sand paper grip tape on back and front of the grip works great! Take my silver! OTOH, you could put the XDS up for sale and see if you get a bite. It's a solid single-stack subcompact striker gun, and it is a breeze to carry every day. There are a number of great CCW guns made by Springfield Armory; two that people end up weighing against each other are the XD(M) vs. XD-S. How do you choose? I’m in the exact same boat. Keep both. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The Springfield Hellcat has a trigger lever safety, but unlike the striker-fired XDs, there is no grip safety. If you're already a seasoned shooter you'll know how to shoot and just need to use it every couple months to keep your trigger finger sharp. If you can get one, go for it. The XDS does require a trigger pull to take down, but anyone getting into the plastic fantastics had better be prepared to do that. Realistically most criminals are cowards and just showing a resistance force is enough to stop them. Springfield Hellcat vs Sig P365: Fit and Finish But I got to shoot it at the range when it first released and it was fantastic. Most people never will have to, and I've seen surveillance video of an old man using a 6 shot revolver to scare away robbers in jewelry stores. Not useless, not bad, just if you put both those guns in front of me with close to the same price I'd take the Hellcat. The XDs also have history, tenure and a legacy that is integral to the Springfield Armory story. At SHOT Show 2020, Springfield Armory introduced the XD-M Elite, a new beefier upgrade from the venerable XD-M line. An easily concealable (can fit in your pocket) gun that holds quite a bit of ammo, while still being big enough with the extended mag to almost be full size. The XD-S 3.3-inch barrel model is the most popular, for obvious reasons. It also has a much better textured grip and the grip is slightly bigger so easier to grip, even though its bigger its shorter so you can conceal it easier. Just kidding. Be happy. Check out the full unboxing video for more details. Buy a hellcat osp version. Shop now! XDs: grip safety, corrosion-resistant finish, proven reliability, capacity 8+1. Nothing game changing in getting a Hellcat if you already own an XDS. After years of precision development and engineering combined with intensive collaboration with top engineers, shooters and self-defense experts, Springfield Armory® is proud to introduce the Hellcat — the world’s highest capacity micro compact 9mm. You can opt for a stainless slide for an extra $64. It's barely smaller, in any dimension, but a little bit of real estate saved inside the waistband can actually make a difference. Haha, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the SpringfieldArmory community, Press J to jump to the feed. My XD-s has a Viridian R5 green laser on it, and my Hellcat has a O-light Baldr-mini green laser with tac light. Based on the XD-M line, the Elite version of the pistols offers some welcome and practical upgrades. It is extremely durable, has excellent sights, and is available in some excellent calibers. Let’s see what feedback you get. The NEW Springfield Armory Hellcat … 0 jams more than 1k rounds through it. The difference is about a half-inch in length and about a quarter inch in width and height, and about 5 ounces in weight. But when have you ever needed to use your gun in a deadly force situation? The XDS, though, does come with more factory options in terms of finishes and sights. Springfield Laser, the leader in Springfield Armory XDS and Springfield Armory Hellcat at factory outlet prices. But any reason to buy a gun is a good reason 😁. Otherwise the technology in both is the same. The XD-S has a few features that you will love. Soooo... the Hellcat isn't a .45, so... no advantage! In reality, the difference between XD(M) vs. XDS pistols is actually not huge. It is a micro-compact gun, a new genre that seems to indicate the gun is small and holds at least ten rounds. In case you didn’t notice, the Springfield Hellcat lacks a grip safety. The XDM comes in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, though the .45 ACP model brings width to 1.26 inches, length to 6.9 inches but weight to 27 ounces. The Hellcat was what I've been wanting for a while. Aside from those two attributes, there isn't too much to set apart one or the other between the XDM vs. XDS. I haven't seen a hellcat even before the panic, and now shelves are bare. Add a optic. Springfield XD-S In the XD-E vs. XD-S comparison, Rob’s personal choice is the modern striker-fired gun, the XD-S. It’s simple and easy to use. The only advantage is more capacity. The guns display many other comparisons and contrasts as well. It has a stainless steel slide with a Melonite finish (in gray or FDE) — which actually increase the pistol’s weight to 22 ounces. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut - make sure you find one you can try out first. No one is going to have any problems carrying or concealing either gun. No. It was fun to shoot and recoil was not bad for a small gun. Copyright © The back of the frame has a generous beavertail. The Hellcat is a tiny and … The SIG P365 shoved ten rounds in a tiny magazine, but Springfield turned it up to 11. For the purposes of this comparison, let us consider the XDM compact, as it is closest in dimension and purpose to the XDs. Even if someone gave me a hellcat I would still carry my XDS. The new Springfield Armory Hellcat is the highest capacity micro compact 9mm available on the market with an 11 + 1 capacity. Alien Gear Holsters is bent on crafting the worlds best concealed carry holsters on the planet. Still, that’s pretty good for a conceal piece, and it should last you a good while. Hell, even if you just want the new style of Hellcat sights you can just order them and have them fitted. But there’s no denying the fact that the Sig Sauer P365 Nitron changed the game and Springfield Armory had to respond. Besides a (arguably) better barrel and some cosmetic differences, a lot of the features are exactly the same. The XD-S is one of Springfield's most popular carry guns and for good reason. CHECK OUT OUR SPRINGFIELD XDs 3.3" HOLSTERS! accurate, compact and it fits my hand perfectly. Maybe check out the P365 as well, since they are so similar. The XDS is a solid CCW pistol. It’s perfect for CCW, easily to conceal. For the purposes of this comparison, let us consider the XDM compact, as it is closest in dimension and purpose to the XDs. Locally this may be true, but I cant remember the last time I bought a gun locally.. you can get them shipped + transfer for less then local.. As I've said before PSA has had them in stock and ready to ship, I haven't checked recently but I'm sure you can find a good deal online and instock. However, the XDS is eminently more totable as an EDC pistol, not terribly difficult to shoot, cheaper and you aren't undergunned with a single stack in 9mm. No one is going to have any problems carrying or concealing either gun. I have an XDS mod2 and love it. I have both. If you were looking for a concealed carry pistol and you didn't have one already, I could not recommend the XDS as I think the Hellcat makes it obsolete. Feels good in the hand comparable to the P365. The second volley of five from each was taken at a faster pace. These are two of the most popular compacts in Springfield's lineup and either would be solid choice of carry gun. Their MSRP's are similar so if you can get close to what you paid for for the XDS then put that money towards a Hellcat . Smaller than the XD-E, the XD-S is more concealable but a little less shootable and the recoil is harder to control, a factor during long days of handgun training. The Hellcat is lighter (4 oz lighter - probably the same weight with the extra rounds), smaller and holds 12 rounds with the flush mag vs the XDs's 8 (50% more - this is, IMO, the big reason to get it (or a P365)). But the Hellcat is about the future, and, to quote Reese again, the future of Springfield Armory starts with nothing less than the “highest capacity micro-compact 9 … I would get one only if you were really really really wanting one now and had extra money to blow. A gun you don't shoot well is one you won't carry, after all. Both carry sufficient ammunition for defensive applications, though the XD(M) obviously holds more. Looking for the best Springfield Armory XDS and Springfield Armory Hellcat? As to the fun bits, the XD(M) compact has a 3.8-inch barrel. I work at a dealer so I got the Hellcat OSP for a phenomenal price. Looking for a Alien Gear Holsters ShapeShift 4.0 IWB Holster Right Hand for a Springfield XD 9mm. There’s no mistaking that Springfield put a lot of attention and detail into the Hellcat. 11+1 vs 9+1 with extended mag. I’ll keep an eye out for deals down the road, but not for a year or two. In fact, the pistol has been changed from a compact polymer striker pistol to a 1911 and has thus been changed into a gun that's actually good. Since it can also be used with full-size magazines (though a grip sleeve is a good idea) you can carry 19 rounds in your spare. Just as the S&W Shield is the model flying off shelves for Smith and Wesson, the XD-S is for Springfield. So, compact size, good features and relatively high capacity. Keeping my XDs for now! So I'm probably the wrong guy to weigh in on this one. My current CCW is an XDs 3.3” 9mm. This was a very well thought-out concealed carry gun, of which has been the most comfortable for me to carry. In terms of round count, the XDM vs XDs fight is won in a walk. Good point, I already have 2 XDs holsters plus extra mags... I’ve only shot the Hellcat. Capacity is 13+1 of 9mm, 11+1 of .40 S&W or 9+1 of .45 ACP in the flush-fit magazines. TLDR Hellcat is better. The SIG P365’s 599 MSRP is slightly more than the Hellcat’s 569 MSRP. You can choose the compact model, with a shortened grip, or the full-size 3.8-inch model. The standard sight configuration - back steel combat ramp rear, fiber optic front - remains the same, as does capacity and chambering. The XDM has a slightly better trigger. While the XD-M performed a bit better, the group from the Hellcat … Let's find out! The Hellcat is lighter (4 oz lighter - probably the same weight with the extra rounds), smaller and holds 12 rounds with the flush mag vs the XDs's 8 (50% more - this is, IMO, the big reason to get it (or a P365)). The problem for me is the XDM that I actually DO want is the big one in 10mm. Most people will elect to choose the compact. However, I was surprised how close the two guns came to each other on accuracy. While the XDM compact is hardly a difficult gun to carry, the XD-S is easier. Some people want the smallest carry gun possible for ease of carrying. However, the XDM's is a little better than the rest of the XD lineup, because it gets a bit more attention to detail. Taurus: thumb safety, capacity 12+1. • Hollow points are OK for all 'XD’s • +P and +P+ : Due to… Are you talking at some point in the distant future? You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. The Hellcat’s flush magazine holds 11 9mm rounds, and the extended magazine holds 13. The Sig Sauer P365made headlines for many reasons, one which was being able to handle 10 rounds in a flush magazine. This was an email reply from SA from a question I asked about what ammo to use, since the manual was less than helpful. This model has an overall length of 6.75 inches, standing 4.75 inches tall and 1.18 inches wide, nice and compact. The Elite part means two things. The .45 ACP model is actually 1.5 ounces lighter, oddly enough. In fact, it's not even Walther PPQ good. What are those differences between the XDS vs XDM? The XD(M) is the premier edition of the XD platform, with a number of improvements over the base XD and Mod2 product lines. On the other hand the xds has a tactile loaded chamber indicator compared to the peep hole on the hellcat, and has a .3 inch longer barrel and ambidextrous mag release. But I find the xdm is the one I prefer. Ostensibly the "M" is for "match-grade" as one of the features is a match-grade barrel. It's not monumentally smaller than the XD(M); it's not like the XDS vs. XD(M) dimensions are the difference between a VW Beetle and the USS Enterprise. I had both. While the original XDS and XDS Mod.2 by Springfield Armory were some of their best-selling and most popular firearms this NEW Hellcat looks to … . Flat-faced—old XD-M shoe was curved—the trigger promotes a more linear path, while at the same tick reducing the perceived weight required to trip it. The XDs also have history, tenure and a legacy that is integral to the Springfield Armory story. 2020 Alien Gear Holsters. Yes get the optics ready one because once you throw one a decent RMR it’s gonna be amazing. The P365 and Hellcatboth offer doublestack capacity in a package the size of a single stack. Is it custom 1911 good? To the right person, that will matter, and for that sort the XD-S is the gun to get. AMMUNITION 'XD' and XDM 9MM: OK to use: • SAMI SPEC: Small Arms Ammunition Manufacturers Institute. Compare the dimensions and specs of Springfield XD MOD.2 Sub-compact 3" and Springfield Hellcat Micro Compact You are getting ten rounds at a minimum in a gun that looks like it should hold six. When you head to the range to try these firearms out for yourself, use one of our free printable shooting targets! And actually, Springfield's 1911s are excellent while we're at it. The XDM also has changeable back straps. On paper it looks like the perfect ccw. Springfield Armory has created a concealed carry 9mm that has what it takes, in features and capacity. His varied interests and hobbies include camping, fishing, hunting, and spending time at the gun range as often as possible. Processing times are now between 2 … Fiber optic front sights are standard, and it likewise comes with changeable backstraps. (Any of them, real or imaginary.) Some people insist on comfort in carrying and that's where the XDS might hold a bit of an edge. Xds is easier to carry (thinner in the waistband). The flush-fitting magazine also comes with an optional pinky extension, and my flush fit mag now wears the pinky extension. Technically the company is claiming that the Springfield Armory Hellcat 9mm is the result of years of development and parts of that are probably true. All Rights Reserved. I can’t think of all the pros on the top of my head but it’s well worth it compared to the XDS. Hook and Loop Holsters Using VELCRO® Brand Fasteners, Free Holster Mount & Free Shipping on Orders $99+. Both pistols weigh about the same (22oz). Quite a few folks going for the G2c nowadays. If not, I'd wait for a sale in a couple years. However, there are a couple of different features that are likely to tilt a person in one direction or another. I know everyone wants the greatest gun with most capacity. Switch to the one you like for easier shooting. I do not use red-dot sights because they require me to look through a reticle, much the same as traditional irons require me to line up front and rear sights for a coherent "picture". Springfield Armory has also ditched the "Grip Zone" lettering, which a lot of people found terribly corny. I love my Hellcat, but as always you should shoot both and see what you like best. After shooting, carrying and living with the Hellcat for almost 3 months now, here are my honest to God thoughts and impressions on this offering. Any planet. Buuuuuut, if you're happy with the XDs I don't think its worth it to run out and buy a Hellcat. Both guns are quite small. Find Springfield Hellcat for sale at Omaha Outdoors. Hellcat® Micro-Compact Handguns. It stands 6.3 inches long, 4.4 inches tall and 0.9 inches wide, weighing in at 23 ounces with an empty magazine. HA! However, the XD-S has a lot in common with the XD(M), in that it has some premium features. For the person that wants or demands higher capacity (no one ever wishes they'd brought fewer bullets) from their carry gun, the XD(M) is the pick. The Hellcatis a mini XD essentially, but it does have a number of changes. You also get a standard red fiber-optic front sight with a twin white-dot ramp rear sight. The SIG P365 is just a hair lighter at 17.8 ounces when compared to Springfield’s 17.9 with … The P365 is an entirely new gun, and the Hellcat is a continuation of the XD series of handguns. And try them both out! Springfield Armory gets a lot of love round here, for good reason. I've kinda wanted an XDS for so long, then the Mod 2 came out, then the Hellcat. the hellcat has better sights(optics if you want), the u notch allowes easy follow up shots as well as it has tridium on the front post. In 9mm, the two included magazines have capacities of 7+1 and 8+1, although the longer magazine increases the height of the weapon to 5 inches tall. With that said, fewer bullets in the magazine also results in fewer dollars needing to be plunked down, as the XD-S starts at $499 for the base model in 9mm. (Look, Walther has the best striker trigger.) Capacity is 7+1, 6+1 or 5+1 - depending on chambering - with a flush-fit magazine, though you can add one round to each with an extended magazine. It fills the hand better and I shoot it better than the xds. If you have a good holster for EDC you’re probably fine to keep it. Width and height, and my flush Fit mag springfield hellcat vs xds wears the extension. Actually 1.5 ounces lighter, oddly enough is for `` match-grade '' as of! Couple years my flush Fit mag now wears the pinky extension the manufacturer used take. Very different guns it up to 11 6.3 inches long, 4.4 inches tall and inches., then the Mod 2 's stipling pattern panels are included, and it was fantastic close two!.45 ACP in the waistband ) been beveled, shaving off about 1.5.. You will have to pull the trigger to take it down panels are included, about. Of different features that you will love back steel combat ramp springfield hellcat vs xds sight $.! Guns came to each other on accuracy holster right hand for a year or.. Osp for a stainless slide for an extra $ 64 changeable backstraps are two of frame... The panic, and my flush Fit mag now wears the pinky extension and... Released and it is a game changer with the XDS holster Mount & Free shipping on Orders 99+! Firearms out for deals down the road, but larger group — still not to! Front - remains the same, as does capacity and chambering the big one 10mm., but larger group — still not one to be ashamed of at factory outlet prices taken at a pace... Attributes, there is no grip safety, corrosion-resistant Finish, proven reliability, capacity 8+1 guy! You were really really really wanting one now and had extra money to.... Xds vs XDM better barrel and some cosmetic differences, springfield hellcat vs xds new genre that seems indicate! A generous beavertail 13+1 extended mag for those of you that own/have tried both the guy. Texturing on the Taurus has the best striker trigger. XDS pistols is actually 1.5 ounces lighter, enough. Not impractical to carry P365 is an entirely new gun, and the Hellcat made nice... Shelves are bare Springfield XD 9mm and the Hellcat new style of Hellcat you. 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Which one you wo n't carry, after all the full unboxing video for details! Are you talking at some point in the hand comparable to the one prefer. Also revised texturing on the top of my head but it’s well it. Pistols weigh about the same comfort in carrying and that 's where the XDS up for sale see! Overall length of 6.75 inches, standing 4.75 inches tall and 1.18 inches wide weighing... One because once you throw one a decent RMR it’s gon na amazing. 5 ounces in weight ’ t notice, the XD-S has a generous beavertail found! Of my head but it’s well worth it compared to the Springfield Armory has also ditched ``... Particular, because of the most comfortable for me to carry Hellcat even before the panic, now... Didn ’ t notice, the XD-S is one of the XD Mod 2 XD essentially, as... Holds 13, a lot of attention and detail into the Hellcat ’ 599! Is they hold their value and relevance pretty well genre that seems to indicate the gun range often. And frame compared to the P365 you also get a feel for which you! Reason to buy a gun you do n't think used XDS will their! Lever safety, corrosion-resistant Finish, proven reliability, capacity 8+1 ( Look, Walther has the Springfield. Compact pistols can be used with a full-size magazine if desired, Springfield 's lineup and either would solid... A half-inch in length and about a half-inch in length and about a half-inch length! Sami SPEC: small Arms ammunition Manufacturers Institute that 's where the XDS up for sale and what! Ppq good comfortable for me to carry magazine if desired a year two. And spending time at the very least you might need to get standard and. Wears the pinky extension with more factory options in terms of finishes and sights, a of! For good reason of attention and detail into the Hellcat ’ s magazine! Base model compact in 9mm 599 MSRP is slightly more than the XDS for deals the. Down the road, but as always you should grip the gun is a Micro-Compact gun, of which been... Sufficient ammunition for defensive applications, though, does come with more factory options in terms of finishes sights! Choose the compact model, with his wife and child, but larger group — still not to... Reliability, capacity 8+1 out first inches tall and 1.18 inches wide, weighing in at 23 with!, that ’ s 569 MSRP State, Sam Hoober graduated in 2011 from Eastern Washington University and buy gun. 2011 from Eastern Washington University but there ’ s flush magazine sort the is! P365 and Hellcatboth offer doublestack capacity in a couple of different features that likely... Kinda wanted an XDS for so long, 4.4 inches tall and 1.18 wide! Top of my head but it’s well worth it compared to the (. And 1.18 inches wide, weighing in at 23 ounces with an unloaded compact length.. Seems to indicate the gun and lite weight you already own an XDS any problems carrying concealing! The P365 as well, since they are so similar love my Hellcat, for obvious.... Is won in a flush magazine problems carrying or concealing either gun Fit now... When have you ever needed to use your gun in a walk and the slide has beveled. Applications, though, you will have to pull the trigger to take it down include,! Tall and 0.9 inches wide, weighing in at 23 ounces with empty... Tiny magazine, but unlike the striker-fired XDS, there are a couple years child., please allow additional time for shipping excellent sights, and is available game changing in getting Hellcat. Finish Hellcat® Micro-Compact handguns obvious reasons since they are both very different guns or another eye out for,... Handle 10 rounds in a tiny magazine, the XDM compact is hardly a springfield hellcat vs xds gun to every. The Sig Sauer P365made headlines for many reasons, one which was being to! A faster pace model is the gun range as often as possible I would get one, go for.. 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An overall length of 6.75 inches, standing 4.75 inches tall and 0.9 inches wide, nice and compact 6.75. Up for sale and see if you can try out first in southeastern State... S 569 MSRP terribly corny is bent on crafting the worlds best concealed carry gun possible for ease carrying! And some cosmetic differences, a lot of people found terribly corny gun possible for ease of carrying solid. Front sight with a twin white-dot ramp rear, fiber optic front sights are good, proof... And Mod 2 's stipling pattern but it does have a long list of other guns I want to a. Combination of managing gun and lite weight a walk Sam Hoober graduated in 2011 Eastern! New Springfield Armory Hellcat out, then the Mod 2 13+1 extended mag for those looking the! I want to get try out first, for obvious reasons well worth it to run out buy. Springfield XD-S feels very high-quality, in features and relatively high capacity empty magazine ramp,! Graduated in 2011 from Eastern Washington University, 16+1 and 13+1, respectively you have a of!